Sorry to hear you won't be around much for a while, Nigel, as you'd livened up a forum which had slowed down a little (mainly due, I suppose, to the lack of Lawrence activity in recent times).

I very much enjoyed the 'Imagery' thread and your contributions. If you ever get the time, I'd appreciate a response to the questions I asked in another thread (titled 'I might just mention'), though from what I can gather (and this is no great sin; I was exactly the same when I first became a Felt fan) your interest in Felt's music is focused on their earlier output.

A shame, because to my mind there's a goldmine of imagery, both lyrical and musical, to be found on the post-1985 work. Obviously the changes in personnel make a difference, but to my mind all the post-1985 work (maybe not "Train..." though!) still bears the hallmark of 'Felt' and as such it warrants the same level of attention and contemplation as the earlier work, though you could argue it lacked the 'ethereal' quality of the early output, with reference to the first two LPs in particular.

Oh, and I know he's an elusive man but next time you have any communication with MD, please pass on my best wishes and those of the other users of this forum. All the best.

I am not given to commenting on post 1985 Felt material Felters, becuase I have no interest in it. However, so be it, and I shall approach the matter by using material already supplied, because it turns in on itself and provides many of the answers itself. Nevertheless, I have little time and therefore cannot give an exhaustive explanation.

"A shame, because to my mind there's a goldmine of imagery, both lyrical and musical, to be found on the post-1985 work. Obviously the changes in personnel make a difference, but to my mind all the post-1985 work (maybe not "Train..." though!) still bears the hallmark of 'Felt' and as such it warrants the same level of attention and contemplation as the earlier work, though you could argue it lacked the 'ethereal' quality of the early output, with reference to the first two LPs in particular. "

1. Yes, it has imagery because all music is evocative of some sort of emotion, whether it be positive or negative. Which one of the two classes of sentiment it belongs in will depend on the listener. There is no positive feeling instilled in me though when I hear the music in question.
2. Mr. Deebank decided on major compositional and arrangement choices, organised the band equipment, wrote the music, advised on all manner of technical matters ad infinitum. So yes, it is most definitely the case that the band changed considerably once he departed.
3. Hallmarks of Felt endure in post 85 Felt music. Again, this is correct; it could not be otherwise, because Mr. Deebank taught Hayward, Gilbert and Loyd everything that they knew in music making. His legacy therefore had to endure by default.
4. It lacks the ethereal quality of earlier Felt music. It certainly does, because it is obvious that Deebank provided the ethereal quality. Therefore, once he left, the outfit showed its true colours which were devoid of esotericism; and, as I have recently shown with the example of light and dark, it is this inner elevation that is mostly responsible for the kind of superior views that have been listed on this forum recently.

Many people do consider later Felt songs to be most popular, because the fact is that ***society in the U.K. has lost the ability to listen to intelligent instrumental music and songs with extremely well crafted instumentation. Up until the time of punk rock the problem did not exist, but once punk came along and degenerated people's minds and made everything puerile and simplistic, everything went down a slippery slope; a situation that we have never recovered from.

This is not to say that post 85 Felt music is degenerate; it managed to escape and stay clear of all that is low. But Felt owes NOTHING to punk where the music is concerned, despite what Haybaler might say.
I realise that some will see these comments as being contentious; that is alright, I have been asked more than once and I have answered honestly.

Finally, later Felt music is still worthy and anyone who finds it rewarding should persevere with it.

There is so much more that I could say, but I have covered the main points.


*** This is not a statement that concerns any individual, but rather, one that concerns the population in general.

First of all, thank you for answering, Nigel. I appreciate that your time is limited and therefore it means a lot for you to give such a considered and intelligent reply to my ramblings.

I must disagree, however, on a couple of points. Firstly, that Maurice taught Lawrence et al "everything they knew about music making". True, MD's skills as both a composer and arranger were indispensable to the band in the early days, and a man capable of writing 'Semipiternal Darkness' amongst other instrumental gems would be a massive loss to ANY band. From 'Index' onwards, however it's obvious that Lawrence had developed a distinctive (if rudimentary by comparison) guitar technique that blended superbly with the MD's more florid embellishments. Try to think what 'Evergreen Dazed' would sound like without Lawrence's rhythm playing. It would no doubt still be beautiful, but somewhat less effective (and affecting) in my opinion.

As for later Felt being 'devoid of esotericism', let us not forget that they recorded two wholly instrumental (and wilfully uncommercial) LPs without Deebank. Hardly a pop sell-out by anybody's standards.

In addition to this, Lawrence's skills as a lyricist improved to the extent that he was able to almost effortlessly juxtapose allusive, almost impenetrable poetic imagery with stark and disarming directness. For example, 'Forever Breathes...' is packed with lyrical references to matters spiritual, something which Lawrence typically denied in an interview but is there for all to hear.I understand that your focus is on the musical rather than lyrical aspects, but Lawrence's lyrics are, for most Felt fans, a key part of what makes Felt records an all-encompassing, otherwordly experience.

Back to the purely musical, though, and it cannot be denied that Martin Duffy brought a lot to the table, both in terms of arrangement and decorative flourishes. Consider the lengthy instrumental passages on 'Poem of the River'; if Felt were genuinely aiming for the exoteric by this stage, surely they could have edited the songs down to three minutes and scored an indie-chart hit? This was not the case, however, and instead we get lush, evocative pieces of music with the guitar and organ intertwining perfectly; something which Deebank-era Felt failed to perfect during the short period of overlap in tenure between Felt's two virtuosos.

Anyway, thanks again for your response, Nigel. Though we might not agree on everything, I value your insights and I'm sure we both share the wish for Mr. Deebank to one day share his talents with the public again. If Segovia's development is anything to go by (and I speak their names in the same breath without any hesitation)then it's tragic that such a talent is hidden from view, especially with a couple more decades' worth of experience in both life and music. We live in hope.

There is much less disagreement than one might think. Again, you have already provided many of the pertinent facts, but they just need bringing into greater perspicuity.

Your reference to "Index" is one that I foresaw as part of any potential response. If you look at my forum additions of last year, it will be seen that I commented on the pre-Felt years. It was during this period that LH learnt his craft with MD. The former had a zero knowledge of music creation in 1978 when the two met; he could not even tune the guitar (and still could not in 1985 when MD left). So, even before the time of Felt (and therefore Index) MD was teaching LH what to do with the guitar. May I also point out that I was not including Index in my analysis, as I was referencing Felt 80-85 and comparing it to Felt 86-90. In this context Index does owe its heritage to both Deebank and punk. I trust that this clarifies the point.

With regard to the issue of esotericism I was, as I indicated, feeding off your statement that later Felt did not enjoy the ethereal spirit of earlier Felt. This I agreed with you on. However, if one takes my point that the Deebank legacy had to live on through inevitability, then there is the possibility that faint echos of this esoteric spirit of earlier Felt lived on. Whether it does or not I shall leave to the listener to decide. The fact that Felt did go on to make two instrumental recordings is testimony to the fact that the ethos created by Deebank lived on, as he was instrumental (forgive the pun and the repetition) in championing music without vocals.

You make the distinction between the "music" and the vocal aspect of the compositions. Again, I foresaw that this would be brought up. I was referring to the none vocal creative parts of the songs only; so, when I mentioned "music", I was not including words and lyrics in my analysis. This you have sensed and provided an explanation to that effect. Therefore, Haybaler is free to talk about his vocal influences without interference from me. I trust that this makes perpiscacious the semantics of the word "music".

I think that where we do disagree, though is on the word, "esoteric" and "exoteric". My understanding of these words is such that I could apply the former to a three minute piece of strophic music that contains no instrumental passages whatsoever. I shall avoid giving a definition of the word esoteric from my own point of view, though, as I do not have the time; neither does it matter.

This has been a very rushed response for which I apologise, but It does reflect the true nature of events as they continue to unravel on this most eximious of forums.

Finally, all who find happiness and development in later Felt music should continue to listen to these most worthy musical creations. Try not to see it in terms of "fashion", though. If you like it, then enjoy it and derive the benefit that you do from it with confidence. Always remain open-minded, but at the same time be firm in your beliefs. This will give you the balance that Mr. Deebank sought in his music..., something that I believe he was completely successful with.

Best wishes to you and all Felters.