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Debbie Wiley – MOMS Founder 
In case some moms haven't been following a previous post I want to throw this out there for discussion. Many moms feel as though God as abandoned us during our crucial times of need while others might ask have we abandoned Him with lack of trust and faith. This is a reply I posted but would like to repost in hopes to get more input on this matter. Are we not putting God first in our lives and is that why the pain continues as well as the horrible things that keep continuing to happen in our lives? If the pain is relieved and our troubles go away we will still put God first and have Him in our lives or will we just use Him to get to our next problem or call Him again when we need him?
Matthew 10:37
"He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me."
For what is it worth one of my supervisors told me that until I release Lisa back to God I will always have the pain in my heart. That until I put God first and not the loss of my child (or the notion that I must be more religious so someday I can again be reunited with Lisa) that then and only then will the pain be released. It is a very hard concept for me to follow especially seeing as this supervisor still has his family members but from things I have learned in the past I did understand what he was telling me. I at this point cannot do that and the pain is killing me as I know it is so many of us. Perhaps if there is someone out there that can relate to this or has been able to do this they could share with us.
Luv ya all....Laura
Dear Laura
The only thing I can say is that we will always miss our children.This isn't a lack of faith on our parts.This is loving someone so dearly you can't breathe without them. I think we can still trust and love God and miss our children too.For the life of me I will never understand what kind of faith it took for someone like Abraham to take his only son and almost sacrifice him because God told him to.The result is that God didn't let him sacrifice his son.What faith and trust Abraham had!I guess God does test us and we don't always like the tests.Or Job who lost his entire family and still praised God in the end.The biggest question I think everyone has is why does God allow evil in the world? This world was beautiful before man destroyed it with his sin.Could God have stopped Adam and Eve? For sure and I guess that is where free will enters in.God wanted to destroy the world He created when Noah was alive.It saddened Him that He had created man.Noah and his family alone pleased God and so they were saved.God gave a 7 day warning that He was going to destroy the world and the world laughed at Him.But God promised Noah that He would never destroy the world by flood again.Therefore rainbows as His promise.He actually made a pact with Noah.The Creator who could do anything He wanted and yet He promised a mere mortal something.God is bigger than life,yet He comes down to our level to talk with us.I know alot of you are wondering when is He around,certainly not when I need Him.I have found that there are many hidden messages in the Bible,helping me to understand and this is God talking to me.I wouldn't know this if I didn't read the Bible or pray to Him.
I can talk to my husband,family,children,and friends about Nicky and what the loss of him means to me.Aside from my immediate family and you MOMS they will not understand unless it happens to them.God knows how I feel more than anyone because He watched His only begotten son crucified,a horrible death something that He didn't have to do and all for me.He knew the reward for this selfless act.To reign in Heaven forever and ever.I can only trust God to know it is worth it.
I can't begin or finish my day without thinking that death isn't the end,it is the beginning.What else do I have if not hope that there is someone smarter than me who has it all figured out.
I personally have never seen so much pain as I do on this message board.I hurt too, make no mistake about that.When I try to figure things out on my own I make a mess of things.So I try to leave it in God's hands to figure it out for me.The only trouble is I keep trying to snatch it back and do it my way,rather than let God handle it.Therefore how much trust do I have? I am glad that so many have put their feelings about God out there.Bad or good it is a topic that I think needs to be on the forum as it is so important to so many.
I have thought about that verse you quoted from the Bible Laura and that is my daily prayer that I learn to love God above my children and family.It's very, very hard.I talk to God about it all the time.As far as what your supervisor said about releasing Lisa back to God,and then you will find peace.My child will always be with both God and me.In His presence ,but in my heart.Thanks for posting,everyone must be sick of my answers by now.Love ya's all
I notice that in all the talk aout God you are referring to Jesus. I wonder where my daughter might be since my family was raised Jewish. Does that mean my family members that have died did not go to heaven? One thing that really bothers me about the Christian religion is that they exclude all others.There are lots of good people from all different religions and walks of life who also deserve to go to heaven if there is one. I personally am not religious and do not pray to God. I was already a good caring person, spent my whole life helpeing others and now I can't help anyone including myself so I don't see what the lesson might be in Keara being murdered. I don't pray,and no longer believe in God. I like Kim have gotten the opposite of what I prayed for. I don't understand a God that would allow a mother of young children to be brutally taken from them. I as their Grandmother have had to watch the pain, trauma, and suffering that it has caused them and it is awful. I am glad for you Barb, and others that have your faith to rely on. Love yas, Darien
Well I don't even know where to begin. I know how much I was so mad at God in the beginning. It took me a long time to realize that it was evil that took my son away from me. I try and believe that God is forgiving, and always wonder why do so much bad things happen to me in my life, why? I feel like I am a good person, I don't do bad things yet bad things keep happening over and over again and again. I try putting things into God's hands I always do but then I get slammed with something else and I say God why??? What did I do to deserve so much pain and turmoil in my life. Maybe my questioning this all the time is why. I don't know??? I try and believe that God will forgive me for asking so many questions, and why sadness took over my life when my son was killed. Because I believe that he did not cause this, evil did. One thing I know is God gave us emotions, love, hope, tears, laughter, sadness, etc. so why would he not understand the pain I go thru in losing my youngest child? It doesn't mean I don't have faith, it doesn't mean I don't believe, I go on because I believe that I will see my son again and my mom, dad, brothers. I always say to myself that Timmy has to be more happy where he is, but I want him with me and I guess that's selfish because I would wnat him to be happy right? There are so many questions and no answers. But I don't think God will not forgive me if I continue to grieve for my son. Was Jesus not sad when Lazarus had died? Did he not weep? But he was able to bring him back to life. This is what makes me believe that we have good hearts and God sees the good hearts in people and knows our suffering and would not not forgive us because we can't let go. I wish I knew the answers I wish maybe I'm not strong enough to understand why God picks certain people to go thru some things and others not. I hate that saying "God only gives people what they can handle" well believe me I can't go on handling much more. My life is so stressed and so sad, everything around me is just sadness. My sons so sad and lost. I try and help but I can't even help myself anymore. I try and pray every night for God to give me the strngth and figure out the purpose and let it be in his hands. Each night when I do this I wind up crying myself to sleep, I can't even pray anymore, some days I only say thank you for getting me thru another day. I always say good night to Timmy, I talk to him all the time, especially at night until I feel that I'm going to fall apart I will say no more crying, no more crying and make myself stop. Well I'm just rambling now. I don't believe that God will not forgive me for grieving for my son. He was a gift to me from God, how could my heart not hurt when evil took him away?
Darien...How well you have said it as I too wonder those EXACT things you are saying. I too must believe as I have been told and Barb has said that if we have a good heart and do what we believe to be right and treat others as we would want to be treated then we should be judged by what it is our hearts. I also wonder about the thief as he was forgiven. Will the murderers be forgiven as well? While it has been said it is not my question to ask I still wonder as the ten commandments are not weighted so murder, stealing or coveting thy neighbors wife...Do they all carry the same consequence? Is it only us as a society that has made some of them more or less of a sin?
Bette...You struck an interesting point if God only gives us what we can handle then why do people commit suicide? We could ramble on forever and believe that maybe we should to try and get a better understanding of questions we have. If we can't ask each other and share our views than who can we really share them with? Yes Lisa will always be with me as I know all the other angels will live in your hearts as well. I do believe Lisa had a good heart and with that I have to find peace. I love you all and want you to know that you are all in our hearts as well as we travel down this long lonely road together that we were brought together to travel on....Laura
My daughter got a card after Chris's murder by her father.
It says" They say God never gives us more than we can handle...I just wish he didn't trust me so much." By Mother Theresa.
Lois,
I first want to tell you how sorry we are for your son. We read your story from when you first posted and cannot believe the injustice and the pain you must be going through. I totally agree as I also ask, "Does this mean if we are able to handle this devastation will we be given more? And will those that cannot handle any never be asked to bear any burdens and continue on their way through life with their happy little families thinking they are better than us?" My girls not only lost their father at an early age due to a heart attack but now they have had their beautiful sister Lisa taken away by murder. How much more are my precious children and family supposed to be able to handle? Thanks for post and once again we are so sorry you had to join us here but glad you found us. Laura & AV
Dear Darien
I am sorry that you feel that the problem with Christians is that you think they exclude all other religions.Being a Christian,this is offensive to me.I personally have never excluded another's faith.I respect others too mcuh for that.In fact I purposely cited the Old Testament also.I may be ignorant of the Jewish faith but I thought Jewish people believed in Abraham,Job and Noah.I would also welcome Buddhists,Muslims,agnostics,atheists and jewish people etc to post on the forum with their views as some have been allowed to do without fear of being misinterrpreted.I have never disrepected their posts with such a statement as broad as yours.I answered how my faith is getting me through and how I am coping with my son's death.I also stated that I in no way am trying to shove my beliefs on others.To insinuate that because you are Jewish and Keara was also Jewish means that somehow I think she doesn't deserve to go to Heaven is just ludicrous.Where did you get that from the post? I believe I was talking about one's heart and how much you all mean to me.I would also like to know where you get in all this talk about God I am really referring to Jesus? Maybe I misinterpreted you and if I did I apologize.Your opinion regarding Laura's post is one thing making a general statement about all Christians is another.I love all you MOMS like you were my sisters,please focus on that fact.Love always am I allowed to say God Bless?
I think a lot of this falls right back onto our injustice system, I have been told that in the Bible it is said that God said (about murderers) "send them to me." I interpret that to mean if a person murders then they should be put to death (an eye for an eye) but it very seldom happens even when a death sentence is handed down it takes years and a lot of the time it is over turned and changed to life instead. I do believe there is a higher power in my life I always have and I use to think that higher power was God here is my story on that.
I use to prey and prey to God to help my oldest son get past his addiction to drugs, since Jim has been gone I have said to him three times "Jimmy if there is anything you can do to help your brother please do it." As a lot of you know Shelby is now clean for three months, I am not holding my breath but it seems to be a good start. So many things leave me wondering why in the span of one year was my son murdered my house robbed and the loss of my job which I had worked 30 years at. Then I wonder why do I question God when I don't question the signs I believe are from My Jimmy. I believe with all my heart Jim has a hand in Shelby trying to get better he has actually for the very first time admitted he does drugs. So I guess Jimmy is my higher power.
Barb I like to read your posts and there are times when I wish I had your faith.
Love ya all
Big Jim's Mom
darien, i was raised as a baptist..but as i got older i learned that no matter who we are or where we're from, we all have roughly the same beliefs. we all have families. we all love, hurt, cry and die...no matter how we are raised, these things are a part of our lives.i believe that keara is right there with all of the other angels. shes watching over you just like the other angels are watching over their mothers...so, in answer to your question, yes darien, keara is comfortable and happy. and the two of you will be together again...in time...hugs to you my friend
This is one tough post with so many questions, interpretations, stereo-types, etc. I know as a child my family was always looked down upon because we weren't practicing our faith in the "correct" way yet those who pretended to be doing so ending up being thieves and hyprocrites. I have since learned not to stereo-type or put any one group into a category as even within that group there is diversion amongst feelings and beliefs. While discussing this with my counselor who also lost her daughter to murder she said she believes in what she believes in and her belief won't change what it is in the end so if she wants to believe in the Green Bunny than that is her choice. She also referred to Holy Rollers which she meant no disrespect but merely describing the groups that feel only they are the privileged ones that will be in heaven. A bit silly about the bunny and general but back to the person and what is in their hearts. Shirley I do believe our angels help us and laughed today as it seems the highest sales come when Kelly & Melanie is at the store when we aren't. Lisa is letting them nickel and dime us and then bringing in the big sales when we leave...lol..
Barb, I am sorry that you were offended by my post and I wasn't talking specifically about you. I have just been told by many Christians that in order to go to heaven I have to accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. Unfortunately religion does seem to be a topic to stay away from when each person has their own beliefs. I am sorry if I hurt your feelings and I hope you know that it was not personal. I was only responding to the topic. I love you Barb and appreciate you.
Thank you Darien,it does make me feel better that you were kind enough to respond and note that it wasn't me in particular you were talking about.Although let's face it, I was the one running on and on about God.I can't help it, it was such a passion of Nicky's that he passed on to me.I can't say it enough how much I appreciate all of you.I really felt like I was having a disagreement with one of my sista's and I thought bossy Laura was gonna step in and tell us to knock it off.See Laura we settled it ourselves aren't you proud of us LOL LOVE YOU GUYS
I am glad we can post here about this topic because it is another area where we try question in our grief process. Darien, I was always told by my Mom that ultimately my relationship with God is between me and God and that the church I attend is not perfect, only a group of people with like or very similar views to mine. I don't believe in denominations. When I was younger and would get disgusted with some people who were saying one thing and doing another my mom would tell me that if I was following them I would always be disappointed and that they were not who I should keep my eyes on. I have wondered what am I supposed to do with this? How do I help others. I have always believed that when we go through something that it becomes almost a duty to help others who go through the same thing. I know I hate it when someone who has never lost a child tells me they know how I feel, but another MOM telling me that is different. I know that she will truly know how it hurts even if the way we grieve is different. Barb, you can always say God Bless to me. I know that is just who you are and it doesn't bother me personally at all. I never thought God took Kaylin. I know he could have stopped it but I know there is free will. I don't understand why it couldn't have been different. I never will understand that. I know that it seems like free will has made some very evil people out there and that they will commit evil acts. I play in my mind over and over as I am sure many of you do, how it could have been different. The If Only game.
I also noticed that this topic has gotten a lot of action on the boards. LOL What's next? Politics anyone? JUST KIDDING!! I love all of you. I really do. I couldn't make it without you and I thank all of you for sharing your thoughts.
I have carry so much Hate anger in my heart towards God, while in the back of my mind I think God never killed my son a human man did. God is a concept, so my Son dead life is never going to be the same as like when he was alive, that is what I have to learn to accept.
My whole life has change so has my concept of how life was with God in my life while my son was alive has change also. I feel better feeling, feelings of Love then hate.
Hate drags me back into the past of negative energy towards the people persons who organised to murder someone ending up shooting murdering my son in mistake.
Someone else energy of " HATE " ended up with my son death.
Can you imagine it so much hate is someone heart that they got a Gun took the law in their own hands for revenge of someone else death. That hate ended up with my son death.
An eye for an eye, tooth for tooth it says in the bible, they literally believed what the bible said took the law in to their own hand .
I am not going to end up with so much anger hate like those people. So I shall let go of Hate, let love in. when we look outwards out of ourselves into mother nature there we find love for ourselves humanity .
At one time or another, I mentioned that I was brought up a devout Cahtolic, I did the whole nine yards!!! In my world, how does God fit into dealing with the loss of my son...He doesn't!!! The End...
Dear Shirley
I am so very,very happy about Shelby.For those of us who have children struggling with addiction,it gives us hope.Jimmy's death could have been an excuse for Shelby to never get off them.Instead I do believe that Jimmy has a hand in this.I hope Shelby sees Jimmy's disapproving looks everytime he thinks about maybe doing them again.I think 3 months is an excellent start,please tell him I said so,unless he's like my kids who think I blab to anyone who will listen and gets mad because you told me.I don't do I?LOL
I too enjoy your posts and say keep them coming.They are encouraging to me as well as to many others.If I haven't said it enough already Love Ya
Dear Laura/AV
Thank you for the spin off on this discussion.I have never seen so many posts on here.I really think it was great that everyone posted and with so many different views.I kinda felt a little alive again.As much as it was sad to some degree it is also something that all of us never really talked about all at once.A group discussion.I like it!!!
I don't know Kim I think politics is next on the agenda.LOL We sort of talk about them anyway with the judicial system and all that it's not cracked up to be.By the way I answered you on the other post.Let us know what happens in court please,we are all here for you.Love and God Bless
Barb, I too am glad that we were able to settle this ourselves. The last thing I would want is for you or any one of the Moms to be upset with me. I think it is important that we stick together and love each other no matter what our beliefs might be. Love ya. Darien
i have always put god first in my life but sence hubert was murdered i have only been thinking of my son and how he was killed,and i realize that i had to let hubert go i know god will take good care of him.i am not crying all the time like i use to god is first in my life know that he is the only thing that keep me going .when we was little all we did was stay in church and i all ways talk to my kids about the good things of god and how he is and when we die that's were we will go.to my god is my life line he see's me thru all that i have been thru .we are bless to have this site
