I was disappointed. It wasn't really a lot of help at this point. We filled out the paperwork to be reimbursed for her funeral expenses and for counseling. We were told we would have no say if they decided to plea bargain. We still don't know much. I don't know if that will change once an arrest has been made or not. I cannot stand to think he will possible get a slap on the wrist for what he did. I have been calling the detectives. There is so much I need to ask them. I also need to tell them things that we have found out and I don't know if they know. I just want to scream at them what about Kaylin's right to live? That was denied. What about our rights to have our daughter in our life? That right was denied, but we don't want to step on this monster's rights. Heaven forbid HIS rights be violated. It just makes me sick.

Believe me our children have no rights what so ever, everything is about the SOBs that murdered them. Do not sit and let them plea bargain if they try throw a fit. Our DA would not plea bargain unless I gave the go ahead and I did not. Your time will come to stand tall for Katlin at the sentencing that will be the only time you will be able to say what you want to say. I have been told not to address the freak that murdered my son I have no intention to I am afraid if I did and he gave me one of his stupid looks I would clock him. The sentencing is in a week and I am nervous as all get out already. You hang in there Kim from what you have said there are witnesses who saw the men that had Katlin you will get some justice it will just take time.
My Love and Prayers
Jimmy's Mom
Shirley

I am going to write a letter to the DA asking him to not let him plea. I have a call in to the detectives too. I have a question? Does anyone know if you can bruise after death? I didn't think that you could. Don't you need blood flow to bruise or am I just crazy?

"Bruising is different in every person, due to the fact that people bruise at different rates and bruising continues for a short while after death."

http://library.thinkquest.org/04oct/00206/text_ta_marks_of_violence.htm

I know how ya feel Kim as far as the VA... I have had my disappointment with then as well.

Each state has it's own set of rules on Plea barginning. Some will consult with the family others won't. Sucks!

Kim,
Didn't you say this happened in California? If so I live in California so maybe there is hope that you will have a voice in this decision if it comes about. If the DA thinks they have a strong case I see no reason for a plea bargain.

The advocate said that 90% of cases are plea bargained. She did say that if you have a lot of witnesses that may convince the DA to go to trial. We are in California. LA County. I am hopeful we will hear something soon. It is hard to know what to even do at this point. I will make sure my daughter's voice is heard. The other day I went to the sheriff's station to sit until someone would talk to me about where she was found. We were given a general area, but I needed to know where. The exact spot. I needed to know. I guess in some way it would help me to know how far down the ravine she was thrown. I had been leaving messages but no one would call me back. I went in on my way home from work and after waiting for awhile someone talked to me and they drove me out to the place and showed me. I do have to say that I am thankful to them. They found her. They FOUND her. I could still not know where she was so I will forever be grateful that they found her. I just have so many questions and I know that most they may not be able to answer and that is alright. Just let me ask in case they can tell me. No one wants this person to be accountable more then I do. To them it is a case they want to win. To me she is my daughter, my child, my LIFE and they will never want to see justice more then me.

Thanks for the link. I wonder how short of a time after death it still occurs? But basically if I read it right, the bruising would not be something that could have happened 12 days after death? It would have to be from something that happened before death or shortly after death right?

I'm not sure of the circumstances your are talking about but from watching all those forensic shows I would say the bruising would have happened before death or shortly following. I would think the body cannot bruise 12 days after death.

So they do know who is responsible or "thinks" responsible? I wasn't sure of this. i do hope they get what they deserve. And pleaing out a case, if you think you have a good case, do not plea if possible. I think once it is in the commonwealth's hands it is up to the judge whethere they accept the plea or not, not sure if same in your state.

God Bless
Bette
Timmy's mom

She had bruising around both of her wrist at her funeral service. The coronor did not mention the bruising there. I wasn't sure if it was just showing up and not visible at the autopsy. I would think that she would have to have received them before she died or shortly after too. Since we did not get to even see her for 8 days and even then we did not see anything but her face we don't know if the bruises were there at that time. I do know I am bothered by them. I am trying to find out if the detectives noticed it before. to me it looks like bruises from having your wrist grabbed. I just have a lot of questions. They have a suspect but no arrest has been made.

I think you need to speak to a forensic pathologist. Myabe someone with the coroner's office, a doc, would be willing to answer your ?'s. Second if there is a med school in your area there may be a professor who teaches the topics your are interested in. Third, discuss this with your personal doc, maybe he/she knows a expert in the field who could help. Good luck, you must get evidence before ajudication, after double jeopordy applies.

I talked to the detective handling her case and he is going to look into it.

Hi Kim,

I am so sorry for all that you are going through. I am hopeful that the detective should be able to answer you as he should have the crime scene photographs. He should also should have autopsy photographs and either of those could show Kaylin's wrists. I am surprised that bruising is not mentioned in the autopsy reports. I know what it is like to try and piece it all together. I am blessed that my detective was extremely compassionate and assisted me with my questions that would nag at me. He was able to tell me that my son was stabbed repeatedly after death, which was comforting to me but still sickening. But as Moms, we want to know and I believe we have a right to know. Plus, I would think that if Kaylin were held or bound in any way that might make the charge aggravated homicide? Ask your detective, I don't think they can plea down from that one.

God bless~

Love,
Lorre

He did tell me that he did not remember seeing them but that he would check into it to see what he could find out. My husband took a picture of her but we have not been able to look at it. I had to look to see if I could see the bruises on her wrist. They are there if they need to see them. Since that was he first we saw her body we were surprised. The funeral director said it may have been the body bag but that seemed wrong to me. I am glad he said he would check in to it for me. I do try to piece it together. I wonder what was she thinking. Did she know that she was dying? Was she afraid? Was she still alive when he dumped her in the ravine? Could she hear anything around her and did she know she was alone? Mostly I want to know if she wanted me. Did she know something was happening to her and want me to save her? When she had surgery several years ago and she was coming to, she would not let me leave to go tell my husband she was waking up. I remember her saying, "Mama don't leave me, just stay with me." I want to know everything. I want to know why? Why did this happen? I wish we had some answers.

Kim, believe me I know what you are going thru. I was the same way and I still am really. I think those thoughts all the time, was he scared, what happened, did he know who it was and why. We think he saw the other guy get shot first, so my mind is thinking OMG he must have been so scared, did he try and run. I asked the det. the same questions, and found out he did not run, he was in a standing protective position, with arms up over his head so he knew it was going to happen, it breaks my heart to pieces to think he may have been afraid just for one nano of a second. I almost cried and said why didn't he try to run away, and he told me "did your son ever have a gun pulled on him?" no, of course not "then he froze". The forensic man told me that he felt no pain he died instantly if that gave me any consolation, the other guy lasted 2 days on life support. My son laid there on the street of hours and hours with people all around, my oldest son had to ID him, that burns in his brain for ever now and he is only 22. He did not want me to go there, right down the street. I replay what could have happened in my mind all the time, which way did they come from (if more than one? I don't know) what was said, did my son think if he just stood there and put his arms up they'd leave him alone, why didn't he run, I ask these things all the time, questions I know will never get answered, but it's ok, you need to fill out the gaps and try to understand why this has happened, just know you may not find all the answers you are seeking, I'm sorry to say. I know you hope she didn't suffer, I also pray this for you too. We never want our kids to suffer, we are supposed to protect them and we couldn't and we blame ourselves. I just wish I could give you a big hug, but can only send you my prayers and hope God gives you some comfort in any answers you may find.

God Bless
Bette
Timmy's mom