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sylvie

Apr 18, 06 - 8:13 PM

cud sumone explain

Hay i just wanna put this out there, cus i'm a new chirstian and i'm reading my Bible but i'm REALLY confused:
in exodus (10) it ses that God sed 2 moses tht he had made the king stuborn so he wud not let the isrelites go.
i was wonderin y ppl think God wud do that, if he cud make the king sturborn y not make him let the slaves go to stop all the hassel.
It seems in this book that God is showing off and doing these thing even though he doesnt really have to, if some one cud explain i would b gratfull

cus it doesnt really seem like tht wud b the case...

Rachey Rach

Apr 18th, 2006 - 9:30 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

I'm gonna have to go away and think about that one. i can't think of a decent answer just now!
it wasn't done to show off, but to be honest, i don't fully understand either. i will go and find out!

jesusfollower

Apr 18th, 2006 - 10:12 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

well i suppose if you look to the future God had the victotry so basically the leader guy was mase stuborn for the future glory of God which was greater than it would have been if he was a walk over

this is oly a first glance but to aften we as humans are short sited but God always has the future glory

coz

Apr 19th, 2006 - 7:36 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

Hey. hum... thats a tough one. i once heard sum 1 say, God was doing that to punish the king. he didnt want the king to say, 'hey, the water turned 2 blood, ahhh! let them go!' or even 'coz i was stuborn, there is a plauge of frogs! let them go!' He realy wanted to punish him, so he made him stuborn so he could send all the plauges, to punish him and the egyptions.

Any way, thats something i heard sum1 say. i duno wa i think. its hard. but yeh, thats an idea 4 u. lol. an ace news about u bean a new christian! my mates a new christian 2! im so pleased 4 da both of u! i pray more ppl will find da luv of god!

xxx coz. God bless

Razten

Apr 19th, 2006 - 8:40 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

just thought of something here that may actually make alot more sense.
if the egyptian pharoah was an actual egyptian (and lets asusme he is) he wouldnt worship Jehovah, he would worship Osiris and Ra and Isis, etc, etc.
now the bible claims these (or practially does, it doesnt mention these gods speciffically) to be the works of forms of satan.
maybe satan, the fallen angel, was behind the pharoah being stubborn, and in him refusing to let the Isralites go.

just a theory, made up, all 5 seconds ago

jesusfollower

Apr 19th, 2006 - 9:28 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

yeah thats also another way to look at it pretty good one really raz

Razten

Apr 20th, 2006 - 7:43 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

cheers,
i just kinda made it up as i went along lol

bambie

Apr 20th, 2006 - 10:58 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

i see the confusion, i was thinkin the same thing the other day, it does say that God hardened pharaoh's heart. the punishment idea, maybe,yes its understandable. God also wanted to show his awsome power, this event in history is reffered to frequently through out the rest of the Bible as an example to people of Gods love and power, that he doesnt give up, that he cares enough for his people to rescue them, even in the face of opposition, it shows that no one is above the LORD and that he has unltimate authority which is what i believe God wanted to show through this drawn out episode.

THEOPTOMIST

Apr 25th, 2006 - 12:32 AM

Re: cud sumone explain

"Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these miraculous signs of mine among them that you may tell your children and grandchildren how I dealt harshly with the Egyptians and how I performed my signs among them, and that you may know that I am the LORD."

The last part of this verse explains God's purposes pretty well. This is Exodus 10:1,2.

THEOPTOMIST

Razten

Apr 25th, 2006 - 7:41 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

seems 'God' has something against the Egyptians, even though they had their own church at one time.
i believe it was called the coptic church but im not too sure, ill look that up.

Dave__s

Apr 27th, 2006 - 12:42 AM

Re: cud sumone explain

Sylvie, a person after my own dear heart. I love the book of Exodus, it's the one I read most often. It's like a movie in my eyes. You get the big sweeping backdrops, the CGI special effects scenes, the battles, the miracles. I love it.

The question you ask has bothered me too. I fear I am no closer to answers than I have ever been! Encouraging, eh?

Perhaps, however, I can point you in the right direction.

Have you ever noticed the way the Old Testament reflects the New Testament? Exodus, does have a little bit of a "predictive" feel to it.

Look at the previous chapters of Exodus: Moses is born in a persecuting country. A world where the ruling society is killing babies to prevent rebellion. He survives due to the kindness of strangers. Moses grows up and then moves into the desert for 40 years. When he returns, he confronts the overwhelming Egyptian power and eventually leads his people to freedom. Bringing them out of exile and into the promise land.

Sound familiar? Perhaps it's easier to understand the Exodus, when you compare it to the Gospels.

Razten

Apr 27th, 2006 - 7:52 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

ill agree that its similar,
but doesnt that imply that the gospels might not actually be all that acurate?
i mean if just copies most of the old testament, then how is the story of Jesus true?
food for thought?

Dave__s

Apr 27th, 2006 - 8:13 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

Would you not sat that the MacCarthy witch-hunts closely resemble the medieval witch-hunts? They may not be the same, but aren't both true?

The Bible is full of stuff like this. It's fascinating to look out for - symbolism and prophecy etc. I've never been a big fan of prophecy myself, I guess there's a little part of me that struggles with it. But still, it's hard to ignore.

shortstuff

Apr 29th, 2006 - 9:11 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

I reckon that God made the king stubborn firsty because he had already disobeyed God, that was why God punished him but it was also a way of showing his power and demonstrating that he is God and he is in charge of the whole world. God does everything for his own glory so this is another way of him getting it because the israelites are totally dependant on him to gain their freedom.

Razten

May 2nd, 2006 - 8:09 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

yeah you got a point Dave_s;
but i still dont think the gospels are that accurate.
although they tell the same basic story the little deatils change too much.

Syvlie

May 2nd, 2006 - 8:44 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

hello everyone,

i'm so glad everyone has thought about this and discussed it cus i was in the dark and i feel less like im the only one who dusnt understand, thank for all your helpful comments, i have carried on reading it and it seems like Gods glory is exhaulted so i guess its all in context...thnx again!

sylvie

PS this forum is wicked talkin 2 peolpe on the same level and in the same boat as me

jesusfollower

May 3rd, 2006 - 1:32 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

yeah true dude and its good talking to peeps who arent christians because its good for us and just make me relise how much we need God

Razten

May 4th, 2006 - 8:39 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

JesusFollower are you saying there is something missing in this life of mine?
lol

jesusfollower

May 4th, 2006 - 9:48 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

lol
what me
noooooooo
well maybe
oook yes
but im never gonna force ya man

Razten

May 6th, 2006 - 6:57 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

theres nothing missing in my life,
well except maybe a reason for the existence of life, the universe and everything else that it consists of.

jesusfollower

May 12th, 2006 - 3:56 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

perhaps thats God
maybe you need God revalation

Razten

May 14th, 2006 - 10:24 AM

Re: cud sumone explain

i need nothing like that.
'god' is a firy tale used to decieve people.
you cant really expect 'God' to be a being of sorts can you?
you cant really say that every single ting in the bible adds up to the truth?
theres no way, no how.
if a being such as 'God' exists/existed then i think it wouldnt be a 'God' as described by the bible.
therefore im more happy to work out who i am, before i try to work out what everything else is.

jesusfollower

May 15th, 2006 - 4:03 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

but you see it was really intersting because i was reading this thing about DNA
and how cells hold all thsi information

we cannot create anything as small as them to hold info

and to me personally how could evolution have that created DNA it just proves outright there is a God

Razten

May 15th, 2006 - 7:50 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

thats because things that are organic supass anything electronic. one day we will be able to create things like that.
and nothing really proves 'God' but then again nothing disproves its existence either.

Paul

May 17th, 2006 - 12:11 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

What do you think of Christians Raz? do you think we're gullible? or crazy? or.. what?

Razten

May 17th, 2006 - 9:10 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

i think each person is different from each other person,
and therefore refuse to classify a group as big as 'Christians' in a few words.

however i think that some of them refuse too much and cling to ancient faiths that are no longer required.

Rachey Rach

May 17th, 2006 - 10:26 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

Good dodging...i'd have done the same! Christianity is more about lifestyle than religion, in my view. everyone has their own slightly different methods/preferences/styles of living, but it still amounts to the same thing, rather than having to follow a billion rules and regulations like some of the other religions.

If you can't prove something right or wrong, doesn't that make it 'non falsifiable', so therefore you can't dismiss either opinion, because they are both just that - opinions, not facts. but that would also mean that nothing we say here can be 'proved' in any way, which is a little depressing. don't quite know where i was going with this but you know, i was just thinking!

Paul

May 17th, 2006 - 10:33 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

yeah, just to add to that, it's bad to define Christianity as a religion. It makes it sound like you have to do this and can't do that.

Like Rach said, it's a lifestyle, God's already done it for us, we just have to accept it

Dave__s

May 17th, 2006 - 11:42 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

I'd be wary of those who dismiss tradition too eagerly.

In our modern/post-modern society, we seem to think that we "out grow" things like tradition faster than we actually do. In truth, tradition gives us a sense of heritage, discipline and community.

For example, I live with 3 Graphic Design students. Before they were taught how to use the new computer programs and such, they were taught how to do things "the old fashioned way" - the traditional way. It gave them a better understanding of their craft and its past and, ultimately, has made them into better artists.

Just because we have new ways of doing things, doesn't instantly make tradition outdated. We need to transcend it and see it from a perspective outside of time. In my opinion, the challenge is this -

To not reject tradition, but at the same time not be dominated by it.

jesusfollower

May 18th, 2006 - 3:45 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

but still christianity is not a religion
i follow and do Gods will because i love him nt because if i dont i wont get into heaven

and yeah rach
aslong as that person looks to do Gods will and glorifying him in everything then what they doesnt matter

we are all different and called to do different stuff in Gods will

Razten

May 18th, 2006 - 8:24 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

heh heh. it was an unfair question to ask me. what do i think of Christian's? Some of my best mates are christians and though we dont agree about 'God' we share some great times, and get on brilliantly. They can get on with my Budhhist mates as well, so i dont see the point in classifying all christians as wrong.

i'll agree Christianity is more of a lifestyle, but so is budhhism and Islamic and Jewish. all teach you how to live.

and im all for tradition. i still think swords are a good idea. much better the guns, as their would be less people using them. however is it possible for someone to follow tradition, but to not be dominated by them?

Paul

May 20th, 2006 - 9:36 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

The reason we say Christianity is a not so much a religion is because you don't have to do certain things and not do others in order to be saved.

Yes - God has commands that he wants us to follow, but they're not unreasonable, and all make sense.

Razten

May 21st, 2006 - 8:20 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

No certain things you must do?

Lets see according to this Copy of the Bible scriptures that basic message im getting is 'Believe in God go to heaven. Dont believe in God go to hell".

So thats that theory out of the window. And explain to me, as an individual how all of whats suggested by this book makes sense?

Rachey Rach

May 21st, 2006 - 10:25 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

Hmmm, what Paul means is we have a basic tennant of we have to believe in God and ask to be forgiven in order to get into heaven, BUT nothing else. all we need for heaven is trust in Jesus. this contrasts with Judaism, where they follow the Old Testament laws as strictly as possible in order to get to heaven. as a Christian, i would say this isn't right, as we have the law as guidelines, but not as the only way to get into heaven, because Jesus surpasses all of that. Islam is kinda similar in that believers have to follow very strict instructions and rules in order to 'please' Allah, they try to earn their way into 'heaven', whereas Christianity is set on us being able to do NOTHING to earn our way into heaven, there's nothing we can do, it's only by God's grace we can enter.

I also think that tradition is fantastic. i love hymns! i also love really high churches, just every now and again. I guess that's just how i view traditional church, with a cathedral and a choir and so on, but i love having a balance between going to a fairly open minded, modern, lively baptist church, and being able to visit formal, very structured, more serious churches, both of which stretch you as a Christian, in the different styles and methods used to bring you into God's presence.
living as a Christian, having it as a lifestyle more than a religion does mean yes i may live more modernly, with less traditional rules, but i would also say i adhere as much as i can to the 10 commandments, because they're traditional, but because they're also the original standard set up for us to follow. it's impossible to do as a human, but its a good way to aspire to live.

Paul

May 22nd, 2006 - 9:22 AM

Re: cud sumone explain

Yeah, thanks for clearing that up Rach.

What do i mean by his commandments make sense? Does it not make sense that He doesn't want us to steal, He doesn't want us to lie, murder etc etc..

It's a love thing ;)

jesusfollower

May 22nd, 2006 - 9:31 AM

Re: cud sumone explain

hey and Raz
just wondering where did you get that bit from
like where in the bible?!?!

Razten

May 22nd, 2006 - 7:22 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

Rach your argument just reafirms my view that Christianity, and those who follow it are generally very lazy people. Ive got nothing to back to this up, other then that only a small percentage of Christians actually help anybody. Even if they do give money at chruch or whatever, its only because they are expected to, and they dont want everyone to see them not giving.

Also the ten commandments dont make sense at all. We are animals, and ever single one of us would steal in order to live. If we were starving then we would gladly do anything we could in order to get some food. If our lives were in danger then we would kill. If our mothers and fathers did something truly terrible to us (for example your father stole your girlfriend from you, and dumped your mother for her) then you would dishonour them. The ten commandments dont apply to people who actually see the world for what it is.

Tupac Shakur said something along the lines of "Lord let me make it, and I'll never steal again." which just backs this point up. If he hadnt of stole things, then he would have died, and thousands of peoples lives would have been changed.

Also there is no exact passage which states that one must believe in 'God' in order to go to heaven, as i said, its just the overall message you get from the book.

luvin jesus 4 life

May 22nd, 2006 - 7:27 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

christians dont give to charity because they're expected to. they give because they want to. ppl shudent feel pressurised into it. i no at some churches they hand round a bowl ur ment to put money in an that does kinda put u on the spot a lil bit but in otha churches (like mine) ther is a box in the lounge so if u wanna put money in u can.

Dave__s

May 23rd, 2006 - 2:55 AM

Re: cud sumone explain

Would people live a Christian life if there were no reward at the end?

jesusfollower

May 23rd, 2006 - 11:07 AM

Re: cud sumone explain

first of all the bit about giving Raz is in your opinion how can judge when your basing it on a tiny bit of what youve seen
before you state such an opinion research it man cos there is no point in stating opinions

And the 10 comandments, well i suppose you have based this upon your view( fair enuf) but the law is based upon the 10 cmandments and that is the law nowerdays(courts e.c.t)

and about us being animals
well peronally i think that pooo and your therory come from perhaps evolution or somehting like that
anyway i belive we were created by God being a Christian and all, i think that is you a research into the wonder of the human body then it is enevitable that there must be a creator

if you take evolution which is a rubbish theory( micro evolution is fair enuf like we adapt to our surroundings and stuff) but macro thats rubbish it is based upon protiens and DNA just reacting over time to produce life over along period of time

and evolutionists look to the miller experiment where he produced life but did it in fake conditions with out oxygen( and there was oxygen around thn it had been found in rocks
he also sparked the amino acids into working but he did that in fake conditions by taking all other gases out beause he knew that the amino acids would be destroyed by a spark and he produced right handed amino acids which were the wrong kind

and it is obvious that only a Great disigner could have put everything together as they are. The probability or by chance life begginning given as much time as you like is 0

also if you look at a plane and how every part is need for it to work and for the plane to first be made there has to be a design and organisations precisely like us humans there need to be some amazing designer and organiser to get everything in the human body to work( and the complexity between protiens and DNA is huge ill find somehting on that becuase i hardly undertsnad it myself)
another thing DNA and protiens are amazing but the true maker never get the praise he deservers for putting everything together

Ok thats all i can wirte down because the article is huge where i got this from

but please all who have questions and still dont buy what i have written read this http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/cfol/ch1-origin.asp

Praise God for he is always there never hcnaging when anything come up against his Greatness he stands!!!

for the glory of God

luvin jesus 4 life

May 24th, 2006 - 5:15 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

who knows...maybe God created evoloution...

jesusfollower

May 24th, 2006 - 9:18 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

didn't the whole thing wriiten above disprove evoloution?! i think it did

Razten

May 24th, 2006 - 9:51 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

Well Dave, I would say that people dont know that there is a 'reward' at the end, they only think, and believe that there is. Meaning they'll do whatever in order to get to where they want to go, following their beliefs.

Jesus Follower your argogance exceeds even my own. You think that just beacuse the theory of evolution has some flaws you can disprove it by saying "Oh its too complex, I cnat understand it, therefore something must have made it, as its too unlikly to happen naturally."

Whatever experiments your going on about, and how bad they may be, also do not disprove it. There is far more (I'm talking big mutiplied by Huge add gigantic here) to the universe and the way things happen in it, then anyone can understand. Whether or not 'God' comes into it is completely different from the point when you ask, "Could life evolve?"

The answer is yes. Given the right type of conditions, even though they are as likly to occur as Earth is to dissappear from existence for about an hour before returning.

Also you cant claim that DNA has to of been created, as you dont understand it. Only when you understand how something works, can you say whether or not it is 'right' or 'wrong'. Im not saying I know it all, hell no one does, but you cannot use that half arsed argument to disprove the theory of Evolution.

It is an insult to scientists, and science everywhere. Not to mention the Christians who believe in evolution anyway.

On a side note about the ten commandments, laws were made to control man, but animlas cnanot be controlled. That is why we're indoctrinated from birth, to follow these laws. People who are brought up going against the law dont care about stealing.

Rachey Rach

May 24th, 2006 - 10:59 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

i'm with raz on some of this... i personally think evolution is a fantastically fascinating topic. God gave us brains to think and explore, so trying to discover how we change is just human nature. i think we can evolve. we dont do it so much anymore because we're so complex, and have become so refined in everything. and that which goes wrong, is being investigated in science all the time.
there are plenty of examples of evolution in nature as well, at least short term. i have more issues with how we evolved from nothing, or from water or whatever, but i think the principle is so intriguing and definitely needs further investigation.
anyway. enough babbling.
it doesnt say specifically in the bible that we have to 'believe in God' to get to heaven, but it does say we have to believe that Jesus died in our place to take our sin so we can become holy again. the only way that that could happen was if He were God himself (or at least part of him). i guess im trying to say it kinda assumes you believe there is a God if you're gonna believe He died for you.

Paul

May 25th, 2006 - 8:24 AM

Re: cud sumone explain

when i was at spring harvest - there was a talk by a Christian scientist (i think he used to teach physics in liverpool uni). Anyway, it was very interesting - he was saying how he believes in evolution, and that the world's all these millions/billions of years old.
He did back it up with quite a lot of evidence etc - his main point to get around the "7 day creation" was that God's time is different to ours.

Though he probably didn't change my mind about creation - i did find it interesting, and it could be helpful to people who to struggle to believe in God because of the "7 day creation". What i really like was that he said "At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter HOW the world was created or WHEN the world was created, but it does matter WHO created it and WHY he created it".

jesusfollower

May 25th, 2006 - 9:35 AM

Re: cud sumone explain

hey by the way raz
i am not saying i know it all no way
but i found an article for ya explaining the other side
did you read it because that explains it a whole lot better then i did

plus rachy rach im wid you on the 6 day creation stuff

Razten

May 25th, 2006 - 2:22 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

If Jesus was part God then and he died for us, surely to go into heaven one needs to believe that he was part 'God' therfore believe in a 'God'.
That made my head hurt ><

Anyway, Im still certain that there is something in the idea of evolution. I mean it is suprisingly intriguing to think of it. I mean say it is real okay? Right lets go through it.

Single celled ameiba (sp) sits in the sea. Sunddenly it multiplies. It grows and changes until there are alot of ameiba's, but no complex organisms. Then one day two ameiba decided to join and work together. One decides to look for light (it is theorised that they needed light to surrvive at this time) and the other decides to grow some sort of weird microscopic legs.

The first complex being is formed. Then it grows and changes and devolps over thousands of years, becoming more and more suited to its surroundings. Only the strongest survive to mate. So only the strongest genes are passed on. Making that specices stronger over time.

Exactly how lucky are we? Very. Not only were our ansestors (I mean prehuman ansestors) strong enough to survive, but they were also able to find a mate, and be sexually active when they found them. Its incredible, impossible odds, but still it could happen.

ame with the Bible, there could have been a flood, there could have been a messiah, but what are the odds? impossible right? Yet where do the stories come from if it were?

jesusfollower

May 26th, 2006 - 9:51 AM

Re: cud sumone explain

hey Raz dude im really really sorry but i have to say that evolution is just not going to have happened
and that is all explained in that arricle please plaese read also more often to day people scientist who study it are all saying it is impossible but anyway neough of this subject

about the flood
its actually really strange how much the flood explains these days
it explains a lot of the rock formations around the earth and explains alot about the animals n fossil stuff

im sorry about the articles dude
but i dont know all the facts and cant explain stuff aswell as these people so yeah they know it all n explain it well plus have a look around the site to
here it is anyway
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v22/i1/catastrophe.asp
and about Jesus being the messiah well that is faith ut all the prophecies written 100's of years before his birth came true throught Jesus's life they propgesies even explained little detains and stuff!!!

hope it helps!

Razten

May 30th, 2006 - 9:53 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

Ok I'll read it.

jesusfollower

May 31st, 2006 - 10:19 AM

Re: cud sumone explain

cheers dude

Razten

May 31st, 2006 - 9:13 PM

Re: cud sumone explain

You know that site is really bias.

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